Thema: WoW = PvP - Katastrophe?
Diskutiere im Allgemeines Forum über WoW = PvP - Katastrophe?. Zitat: Original von Katjusha Guguck! Ihr könnt rumunken wie ihr wollt ich glaube trotzdem, daß Euch beim ersten Anblick von WoW und/oder spätestens nach den ersten PvP -Encountern die Kinnlade bis zum Knie runterklappt .... Blizzard ist kein Neuling wie Mythic es war und hat ...
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Alt 22.01.2004, 05:07   #11
Level 6
 
 
Beiträge: 16

Zitat:
Original von Katjusha
Guguck!

Ihr könnt rumunken wie ihr wollt ich glaube trotzdem, daß Euch beim ersten Anblick von WoW und/oder spätestens nach den ersten PvP-Encountern die Kinnlade bis zum Knie runterklappt .... Blizzard ist kein
Neuling wie Mythic es war und hat viel Kohle und einen guten Ruf zu verlieren.

so long
katju
Das Problem wird aber eher sein, das die erwartungen einfach auch höher sind.
Alleine schon den Spielern auch eine Motivation für PvP zu geben die über Hack and Slay hinaus geht ... das wird nicht leicht sein.
Klar gibt es den Klassischen Konflikt Horde/Alliance. Aber wie bekommt man die pvM leute und die PvP leute unter einen Hut? Ich hoffe auch das sie es gut hin bekommen. Aber nach der Adaption von PvP in SWG hab ich einfach einen Horror vor noch so einen Reinfall.
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Alt 22.01.2004, 05:07  
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Alt 24.01.2004, 09:16   #12
Level 21
 
 
Beiträge: 226

Zitat:
Original von Moghty
Hmm... klingt ja, als ob du WoW schon spielen würdest
Schön wär's.
Katjusha ist offline  
Alt 24.01.2004, 10:23   #13
Level 13
 
 
Beiträge: 85

jo, ich denke das die quests recht interessant sein werden, aber Krystan hat recht, soo von dauer werden sie nich sein. Aber ich denke das das PvP klasse wird, ich freu mich drauf und hoffe das die Zeit nen bisschen schneller vergeht :P.
ChiboPurrdead ist offline  
Alt 25.10.2004, 10:03   #14
Level 6
 
 
Beiträge: 18

Zitat:
Original von Katjusha
Guguck!

Ihr könnt rumunken wie ihr wollt ich glaube trotzdem, daß Euch beim ersten Anblick von WoW und/oder spätestens nach den ersten PvP-Encountern die Kinnlade bis zum Knie runterklappt .... Blizzard ist kein Neuling wie Mythic es war und hat viel Kohle und einen guten Ruf zu verlieren.

so long
katju
hmm naja mythik is auch kein neuling im mmorpg markt wenn du dir mal die mythik seite angesehen hättest würdest du sehen das die noch mehr als nur daoc im mmorpg markt am laufen haben (wie gut die sind kann ich leider nicht beurteilen ) aber naja mir gefällt das pvp system ... so lala. aber hab auch in daoc nie massig rvr gemacht von daher würd ichauf meine "bewertung" nicht viel geben
Droux ist offline  
Alt 25.10.2004, 11:16   #15
Level 12
 
 
Beiträge: 68

Zitat:
Original von Droux
hmm naja mythik is auch kein neuling im mmorpg markt wenn du dir mal die mythik seite angesehen hättest würdest du sehen das die noch mehr als nur daoc im mmorpg markt am laufen haben ...
Ah ja ... welche Games meinst du? auf www.mythicentertainment.com findet man ausser DAoC nur Hinweise auf Imperator, zu dem gerade erstmal der erste Trailer veröffentlciht wurde. Das einzige Game, an dem Mythic betiligt war, war "Darkness Falls", was imho nullkommagarnicht unter der Rubrik MMORPG einzuordnen wäre.
Asgir ist offline  
Alt 25.10.2004, 11:39   #16
Level 20
 
 
Beiträge: 205

jo selbe erfhrung wie blizzard also, was doch zu hoffen gibt, auch wenn das balacing bei daoc nie gestimmt hat, so war das pvp system brachbar...
Yeza ist offline  
Alt 25.10.2004, 12:00   #17
Level 8
 
 
Beiträge: 35

Also "Darkness Falls: The Crusade" kann man denke ich als MMORPG verstehen (zumindest isses mal n RPG mit Onlinesupport)...hat halt weder Grafik, noch Sound..nur Text, aber man hat die selben Möglichkeiten wie z.B. bei DAoC mit Gilden/RPs etc.
Ein anderes MMORPG (oder auch RPG mit Onlinemodus ) von Mythic wäre z.B. "Dragons Gate" (von dem Horizons glaub ziemlich viele Ideen geklaut hat..).
(trotzdem könnte man bei DAoC teilweise wirklich meinen, dasses ihr erstes MMORPG war...zumindest wenn man sich mal des Balancing anguckt....)

Und nur zur Aufklärung...Mythic hat noch weitere Multipalyergames gemacht, da wären z.B. "Independence Day Online", "Spellbinder", "Magestorm" oder "Splatterball Plus".
Entaria Adun ist offline  
Alt 25.10.2004, 12:02   #18
Level 6
 
 
Beiträge: 18

aaalso mmorpg war vieleicht wirklich fallsch gewählt weil die anderen titel auf relativ wenig leute begrenzt sind aaber da es hier um pvp ging (und spellbinder, magestorm usw sind reine pvp spiele) habe ich diese einfach mal angeführt. und in dem sinne denke ich das mythik mehr erfahrung hat als bliz, vom battlenet mal abgesehen ^^
Droux ist offline  
Alt 25.10.2004, 14:29   #19
Level 7
 
 
Beiträge: 22

RE: WoW = PvP - Katastrophe?

Zitat:
Original von Rob Pardo, Blizzard

September 16, 2004 - In Blizzard's World of Warcraft, four races comprise a faction known as the Alliance. The industrious Dwarves of Azeroth hail from snowy Khaz Modan. Once disinclined to leave their mountain citadel, Ironforge, they now search far and wide for signs of their ancient beginnings. They are staunch friends with their Gnomish cousins, having long shared the resources of the forested Dun Morogh Peaks, and have grown even closer since the latter were driven from their techno-city of Gnomeregan. Both are on good terms with the Humans of Stormwind, a community that, with the kingdom Lordaeron in ruins from the invasion of the Burning Legion, stands as the last bastion of the species' civilization. Reclusive beings who favor the darkness hours, the Night Elves are honorable and just, but still hesitant to trust the 'lesser races' with whom they are allied.

An equal number belong to the opposing Horde. Native to the grassy plains of central Kalimdor, the massive, bull-like Tauren are normally peaceful and devoted to maintaining the balance of nature. The fierce Orcs arrived in Azeroth unwillingly after being taken from their native world, Draenor. One of their leaders saved the Trolls of the Darkspear from extermination. None of the three puts much trust in the Undead, but they all share a common enemy, the Lich King. Lead Designer Rob Pardo is also the Vice President of Game Design at Blizzard. He is passionate about player versus player, and in this article, he provides information on why the fiction of the Warcraft universe demands PvP, how it will be implemented in World of Warcraft, and what rewards and incentives exist for players that engage in this style of play.


Player vs. Player in World of Warcraft

The Three Cornerstones of World of Warcraft
When we first started making World of Warcraft, there were three major components to the game. One, of course, was the adventuring aspect of the game, where you play against AI-controlled monsters and the environment with a group of friends. The second component is what we internally call the "World is Toy" aspect: making sure there are plenty of things to do in the world that are fun, but that have nothing to do with character advancement. The third component is player versus player gameplay. All the games that Blizzard has released have always been competitive, and our fans look to us to provide that type of play. So, we felt that had to be a core component of World of Warcraft.

The World Supports PvP
One very important motivation in designing PvP into the World of Warcraft was to make it feel like Warcraft. Warcraft - starting back in the day with Orcs and Humans - was about the war between Horde and Alliance. We have expanded the Alliance and Horde to encompass more races within each side, but it's still, at its core, a game about the conflict between the two factions.

We designed our world to reflect this tension and to create situations that bring players into conflict with the other side. Our quests encourage you to attack the NPCs of the opposing faction. We also set up our zones with conflicts already ongoing between the two sides, and then ask you to participate in those conflicts. For example, in the Hillsbrad zone, there is both a human town and an undead town, and the undead town has a series of quests that ask you to go to an Alliance village and defeat human peasant NPCs. We feel that is a great way to remind the players that a war is still raging between the Horde and Alliance. It gives both sides reasons to dislike the other players. An undead player in Hillsbrad is made to feel like the humans are his enemies, and vice versa.

The way we handle languages also supports this division between Horde and Alliance. The two sides can't communicate with each other. That's actually not a hard and fast rule; they just speak different languages. There is the ability for any particular race to learn a language of the opposing side, but again, since you can't really communicate with people from the other side, there is already a barrier there between you and them. You already have friends that you speak with versus enemies with whom you cannot.

The Goal of PvP in World of Warcraft
We really wanted to make our PvP system unique, and we wanted to create a way for everyone to participate in PvP combat if they wanted to. Many MMORPGs out there now segregate their adventuring groups from their PvP groups. Some games are "PvP-centric" while other games are focused only on adventuring. Even in those particular games, you'll see that the designers have created special rules servers where people can enjoy PvP even though that wasn't what the game was designed for. We really wanted to bridge the gap. We wanted to design a game where people could have a good time adventuring and at the same time engage in PvP whenever they want, and be rewarded for doing so. That was the overarching goal.

Team-Based PvP
Our goal has always been to make our PvP system team-based. If you look at a lot of competitive sports, even competitive games, it is more fun to be on a team than to be by yourself.

One of the main reasons why - other than for story reasons - that we wanted to go with a team-based PvP system was to give people a sense of community. When you first start the game, whether you join the Horde or Alliance, you will know right away who your friends are and who your enemies are. You immediately have teammates who will jump to your defense if you get attacked in a PvP area, and you know innately who to attack and who not to attack.

Another benefit of team-based PvP is that it splits the sides evenly and makes our communities smaller, which in turn makes it a lot easier for players to develop friendships with their groups, create guilds and to get to know everyone in the community.

The core part of our PvP system that really reinforces our team versus team structure is team-based goals. If your team accomplishes certain goals in the world, then everyone that is participating in PvP will gain more honor, which is the currency of worth in player versus player conflict.

Our team-based goals include killing important faction NPCs and controlling contested territory. For example, if players on the Alliance side manage to kill Thrall, the orc warchief in Orgrimmar, then everyone on the Alliance PvP team will earn more honor that day. Battlegrounds work similarly; if you manage to conquer a battleground, then your side will get honor points that will be distributed to everybody. While there are a lot of individual awards for a player, it is always in your best interest to team up with other players in the Alliance or Horde, depending on which side you are on, and accomplish these team-based goals because everybody benefits.


What Are Battlegrounds?
Battlegrounds are special zones that are always flagged for PvP. They exist on both the PvP and normal servers, and are considered contested territory. Players on the PvP server will be familiar with contested territory, but for players on the normal servers, they will find it more dangerous because the moment they set foot in these zones, they can be attacked by the opposing side. However, there will be incentives for adventuring in these zones, including team-based goals for PvP.

For example, our first battleground, Alterac Valley, which is near the Alterac Mountains, is set up like any other zone. Inside, you'll find monsters, quests, a Horde town and an Alliance town. The quests - which are more rewarding because you are in a PvP area - might be what lure you in, but as more players on your side arrive, you might get swept up in an attack on the enemy's town. If you manage to kill the commander there, their town will get razed, and your side will accumulate team honor points.

Something long-term we want to add to battlegrounds to make them even more fun are siege vehicles. We'll begin implementing them after World of Warcraft ships, but the intention is to give players catapults and other siege vehicles, and then increase the challenge when it comes to razing the opposing side's town. Once siege vehicles are in, the mechanism for conquering the other side will be to destroy their buildings and not just to kill their NPCs.


The PvP Ranking System
We know that to make PvP really interesting and worthwhile, we need to add incentives, and I think we've done that with our rewards system.

Basically, at the end of each day, we calculate how much honor has been accumulated by each side. We start with a base honor pool, and then add bonus honor points based on whether your team defeated any important faction NPCs or controlled any battlegrounds.

This honor pool is then distributed among all players who participated in PvP for that day. Your percentage of this pool is determined by your contribution - basically your total individual honorable kills - to the team. The greater your contribution, the greater the percentage of honor you earn.

Honor is a concept that is central to our PvP ranking system. There are honorable kills and there are dishonorable kills. You earn honor for killing opponents at or near your level, and more honor still if you kill a higher-level player character, as opposed to an NPC. There are also dishonorable kills, and these would include killing lower level PCs and NPCs, and especially non-aggressive NPCs like gryphon masters and quest givers. If you repeatedly make dishonorable kills, you'll eventually go into the negative ranks, lose experience and become attackable on sight by both factions. Our intention is to punish dishonorable behavior and reward honorable PvP play.

If you participate in PvP on any given day, then you will get some percentage of your team's honor points for that day. If you don't participate, then you gain zero points.

At the end of the week, we give the players their tally, including their honorable and dishonorable kills, their contribution to the team, the total honor earned by the entire faction, and the percentage of honor earned by the player. All these scores in aggregate make up the player's military rank in PvP. Your military rank and your successes in PvP entitle you to a number of rewards. Your rank will become a title that will distinguish you from other players, so you gain prestige and notoriety in the world.

Our ranking system is also competitive, so you'll be competing with your fellow team players to see who can be the most honorable and successful PvP player. The PvP rankings will change regularly to reflect the best PvP players on the servers each week. All players who participate in PvP will be able to track their rankings and successes, not only through their weekly tallies in-game, but also through our World of Warcraft rankings website, which will be updated weekly with all the ranks and accomplishments on each server.

PvP Rewards
Simply participating in PvP will net you certain rewards such as a title and the right to a special PvP team tabard. As you move up in ranks and participate more in PvP, you'll gain discounts with NPC merchants in your faction and be rewarded with equipment such as cloaks, rings, armor and weapons.

Those PvP players who attain higher ranks and become officers will also get officers' tabards and gain access to special officers' barracks. Inside, you'll be able to buy rare items that can only be used after you gather sufficient honor and rank. Very high-level officers might even gain access to special mounts and items of epic quality.

The highest-ranking PvP players for each race will earn particularly special accolades, including the title of city protector for their racial capital and the ability to teleport at will to their home city.

Rob Pardo
Lead Designer, World of Warcraft
Vice President of Game Design, Blizzard


Das klingt meines Erachtens nicht nach einem "PvP nebenbei"-System. Einiges ist bereits in der aktuellen Beta umgesetzt, sehr vieles noch nicht. Im Vorfeld bereits über ungelegte Eier wie Balance und die mit Sicherheit auftretenden Probleme im PvP zu diskutieren, halte ich für sehr gewagt. Blizzard legt den Fokus im Endgame definitv auf FvF - doch kann und wird auch dieses Devteam keine Wunder vollbringen.

Sollte jemandem ein absolut ausbalanciertes, faires, bug- und lagfreies, alle Spieler gleichermaßen motivierendes PvP-basiertes MMORPG bekannt sein, so wäre ich ihm für einen Link dankbar.



Edit&Nachtrag: Fällt mir doch soeben auf, der erste Beitrag hier stammt von Januar '04... - Skandal!
Farthuul ist offline  
Alt 01.12.2004, 14:42   #20
Level 7
 
 
Beiträge: 26

Jo da war man noch unwissend und naiv
Sentinel ist offline  


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